Timing Issue?

[corvairbob]

let us know how you make out on this one? good luck to you

 

[Adjadean425]

I went through it all today. I reset the balance chain, reinstalled the timing chain. Everything was lineup correctly. After that no start. So i put the old chain back on. It starts after 4 or 5 cranks. I’m not sure what to do. I’m wondering if it could be that maybe the parts dont all match up. Some were from rock auto some from Oreilys. I’m going to check on getting all of them from GM.

 

[corvairbob]

it is very possible you got the wrong set gm will be costly go to cloyes website and get there set. i got thers the second time as the one i got from ebay broke and i did now know if it was do to the kid not checking the oil or faulty parts. they both looked the same but the plastic may have been inferior on the ebay parts. but cloyes is a good america company and so far the parts are doing good after a year. the ebay parts lasted about 6 months. if your up to it and have the car torn down far enough and plan on keeping it for a long tiem and it has lots of miles on it you may think about the cloyes complete timing set the water pump the balancer and the cam chains. here it the link and at this page you can start your search. this link starts at the 2014 equinox with the 2.4 engine if this is not your car then start at the beginning. you can pick what you think you need form this page. or go to the contact us and tell them what you have and what you want to do and they will be glad to set you up. i would use this link to get a handle on prices and then go to the contact us and tell them the vin the year make modes and engine and what you want to do and they will set you up. plus like i said as long as your into it this far a water pump might be a good idea becasue if that fails in 6 months your going to get into it almost this far. but you can change out the water pump without takeing it this fat apart they have tool to do that, it is up to you at this point. good luck let us know

Cloyes Part Finder

Easily search for Cloyes stock replacement or high performance parts using the application, part number, VIN, cross reference searches

www.cloyes.com

 

[corvairbob]

how you doing did you get this figured out yet? is there anything else i may be able to help you with?

 

[Adjadean425]

NO luck. I replace everything associated with the timing with a kit from Cloyes. It started right up the first few times. I thought it was good. Then right back to the same issue. I going to look into the elecrical side of the ex. cam sensor. My code reader has a monitor mode. Im not showing any readings on the ex. sensor. but I am on the intake. The car runs perfectly. Just doesnt start every time you crank it. Im driving it to work and back daily and averaging around 27 mpg. After I changed every thing i could cleat the P0017 code. but after i drove it for about a half hour and tried to restart it came back and then started being hard to start.

 

[corvairbob]

die you change out the vvt solenoids? what code is it sending. i'm sending info for a 2013 2.4l equinox i'm assuming your working on that engine and same or close year. it may not be timing related. p0017 is exhaust cam related code, it is telling the cam is not in time. so i have to figure you have double checked a dozen times to make sure the cams are in physical time. so it is possible you have a bad sensor. i think they can be switched. so switch them front to back and see if the code moves to p0016 front cam. did i send you the YT that shows how to detect the cam reluctor moves and can cause that code. if you move the sensor and the code stays at p0117 then you either have a bad cam reluctor or bad wiring to that cam b sensor. i can send troubleshooting for that if you get that far. look at the harness for that sensor and double check the wires are ok and the pins have not bend or broke off or pushed back so on is not connecting good. you can't tell by looking fo the cam reluctor ring has moved you have to compare it to a lobe and to do that you have to at least have the cover off. keep us in the loop. good luck

 

[Adjadean425]

I dont remember that video. I am good on the electrical side. Im not getting the voltage back out of the sensor. I will either put a new sensor in or switch it out with the intake. If you can send me that video on the reluctor location procedure. Thanks

 

[corvairbob]

ik her you go this YT explains the reluctor watch the complete video but the actual part is at 8:10 where the show the parts. he says intake but he means exhaust. i ssebt 2 the second one is from south main st auto and he is good he does tons of videos watch this one as he shows lots of tricks.

 

[Adjadean425]

Ok Thanks. I switched the front and back sensors out last night and had the same result. Code P0017. So seems like it would have to be the reluctor. I had checked my cam sproket positions multiple times before i put all the covers on.

 

[corvairbob]

ok those to videos i sent to you show how to determine if you have a bad reluctor. by looking at it. let us know what you find. also, both videos show how to determine using the scanner. so before you take it all apart make sure the plug for the sensor is not busted.

on a side note this code is related to crank and cams so when you put this back together the crank key has to be at 12 and the dot that you can't see after you put the timing chain sprocket back on is at about 5 so are you sure you had those in the correct spot. 1 tooth will mean a lot on the crank. by any chance did you take photos of the reassembly to fall back on in cases like this? good luck also did you use new vvt solenoid valves? if so and the old ones look to be serviceable clean the screens and for shits and giggles put them back in and see if the code goes away. i had a sit load of codes when i did mine and so i put the old solenoids back in and the codes went away. then after the chain broke again i put in the new solenoids and no codes. so i may have had my crank off a bit the first time also and got it good the second time or the ecu did not like the new valves. worth a try

 

[Adjadean425]

Im positive on having everthing lined up. I did use the new solenoids that came with the kit. But I had the same code before that. I am sure my connector is good. The only thing is after I changed everything last weekend it started up fine multlple times with no codes. I did a oil and filter change before starting it. But I wonder if i could have sucked somethiing up in the solenoid. Its worth checking. I sure appreciate the help. If i get it going right i will update what I found.

 

[corvairbob]

ok in the first video i think he shows how the reluctor is positioned when the exhaust is in its timing location and then look at the ring to see where those notches are. if they are off and they could be, do not try to fix it just get another cam if you have the lea engine i'm sure the reluctors are the same as that engine uses the exhaust cam on the intake side as well so make sure you get an exhaust cam here are photos of her engine reluctors notice they are the same and the number are the same but i did not get part numbers but when i held them in my hands i noticed all the lobes are in the same spots. i had to do that because i got the timing set for a different engine and when i put it together the valves hit the pistons and i had to do a lot of research to find out what i did wrong. then i noticed the same cams and that helped me figure out this was a different type engine for some reason. anyway if you can get a photo of the back of your cams you can make sure if they're the same or different and to make sure the reluctors are in position. watch that first video. around the last part where he shows them. and the second video he may show them as well i did not watch that all the way.

 

[comp]

is there a engine book available for 2.4 building ? looked around the web and it looks like they are older performace build books,,i have a 2017 at 75k,,looking to scope the internals and do a pre-emptive fix,,like maybe the chain guilds before they are worn so for as to do more damage?? thanks

 

[corvairbob]

the only thing i have are YT videos that show how to do the chain. i rebuilt the engine but for the most part, doing rings and bearings are standard. and you can find plenty of YT for those.

if you want some videos on the timing let me know. if you want to get parts like the guides i would just do the complete thing. as long as your are there. but at 75k if you not hearing any noises for the belt side of the engine or the top same side then i would leave well enough alone for now. i'm sure others will stop by with the gen 3 and give you more updated ideas and help. i only have 2013 experience or gen 2

if your really want to do it then look cloyes timing parts. get the parts from them then you know you're getting good solid parts. also if you get into it and find the guides are broken then might as well figure on taking the pan off as the oil pickup will be full of the busted-up parts been there 2 times see photo of oil pickup full of busted up guides

good luck here is cloyes site

Cloyes Part Finder

Easily search for Cloyes stock replacement or high performance parts using the application, part number, VIN, cross reference searches

www.cloyes.com

 

[Adjadean425]

ok in the first video i think he shows how the reluctor is positioned when the exhaust is in its timing location and then look at the ring to see where those notches are. if they are off and they could be, do not try to fix it just get another cam if you have the lea engine i'm sure the reluctors are the same as that engine uses the exhaust cam on the intake side as well so make sure you get an exhaust cam here are photos of her engine reluctors notice they are the same and the number are the same but i did not get part numbers but when i held them in my hands i noticed all the lobes are in the same spots. i had to do that because i got the timing set for a different engine and when i put it together the valves hit the pistons and i had to do a lot of research to find out what i did wrong. then i noticed the same cams and that helped me figure out this was a different type engine for some reason. anyway if you can get a photo of the back of your cams you can make sure if they're the same or different and to make sure the reluctors are in position. watch that first video. around the last part where he shows them. and the second video he may show them as well i did not watch that all the way.

i was liooking online, and if i have to replace the camshaft, I cant find the exhaust camshafts anywhere. Are you saying that the ex. and int. camshafts are the same?

 

[corvairbob]

if you have the lea engine they are in the glove box at that tag in there on the door. that is the build sheet look to see if it has lea on it. i can't remember the row and column but if it has the lea you will see it there
my mistake on them both being the same i forgot the intake has the high-pressure cams on it but for the timing, they are both the same configuration and when i compared them side by side with the vvt alignment i hope i got it clear enough for you to understand

you may have to check out the locak jun yards for one, or ebay one

do you have the lea engine here is what the just answer site guy told someone

Chevy Mechanic: Ron
The VIN code is K and that is in fact the 2.4 LEA engine, as long as you go with the K (8th letter of the Vin) you should get the same engine.

these cars use the same cam per rock auto

BUICK	LACROSSE	2010-2016
BUICK	REGAL	2011-2017
BUICK	VERANO	2012-2017
CHEVROLET	CAPTIVA SPORT	2012-2015
CHEVROLET	COBALT	2009-2010
CHEVROLET	EQUINOX	2010-2017
CHEVROLET	HHR	2008-2011
CHEVROLET	IMPALA	2014
CHEVROLET	MALIBU	2009-2014
CHEVROLET	ORLANDO	2012-2014
GMC	TERRAIN	2010-2017
PONTIAC	G5	2009-2010
PONTIAC	G6	2009-2010
PONTIAC	SOLSTICE	2009
SATURN	AURA	2009
SATURN	SKY	2009-2010
SATURN	VUE	2009-2010

Please refer to catalog for application details.

rock auto link to the 2.4 engine but i can't confirm those are for your engine.

2013 CHEVROLET EQUINOX 2.4L L4 Camshaft | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

this link in the equinox forums talks of the laf to lea conversion so maybe you can do lea to laf

you know if you determine the reluctor is off and you can tap it back into the correct position i would see about drilling into the have section and tapping that and inserting a setscrew. make sure it goes into the cam bode just a bit to ensure it stays there.

i sent an email to a guy that has a YT site and he has helped me with the equinox for removing the engine out the top and a few other items maybe he has a video showing how to fix this is you have his issue. if he does i will get it to you asap if not you will not see it.

good luck a lot of stuff here to take in
fixing the cam last resort
pins pointing the same way all the lobes pointed the same places. but the intake had the fuel pump lobes on it

here is the exhaust looking from the vvt i put an arrow showing wher the notch should be if you notice the notch is the one in the center of both larger chuncks for lack of a better term

 

[corvairbob]

if your absolutely sure you have a bad cam at worst you can get a used lea head and use the cams on that head

on ebay they are like gold. if you are sure your cam is bad then find a tool shop and have them do that if your a bit leary of messing with it. they will drill into the lobe and cam and tap down into the cam and insert a set screw and then lock it in with a backup set screw with red loctight. blue cyou can remeobe red you can't unless you heat the area up.

you can do that yourself it your handy enough with a drill and tap. i do not know the thickness of the lobe but i bet a 1/4" will work. you have to keep the lobe solid of the sensor may take that as a skip and again send out a code. i just looked again and you do have enough material to do that in the wide low spot on the ring. install the set screw here and red locktight it in and grind off the top. this will be permant so make 200% sure this is what you need. looking at the video i sent you showing the cam lobe in the correct and bad positions i bet mine is a bit off as well but it runs and is not setting codes so for me i will leave well enough along.

that video again for you to see at the end how he shows a know good reltuctor lobe position.

if you can get you hands on a known good one even if they want tons for it ask them if you can return it and use it for comparison. maybe a junkyard might have one but that is a bit iffy also good luck.


one more way to fix this you have to take it out after you are 200% sure it is been put back into the correct spot and take it to a welder and have them just braze it back in. it will not go anyplace again and you can undo that. that is about all I have good luck keep us posted.

to bad you are not in my town, if you were, i could do any of these fixes for you

 

[Adjadean425]

It says i have the Lea but it looks like my reluctor is out 180. This is TDC with my cam phasers and crank in correct position.

 

[corvairbob]

yep that looks like it is way out. i did compare yours with mine and the phasers look to me to be on correctly. and the notches and cutouts etc are all in the same spots on yours compared to mine.

the only thing i can think is you may not have the lea engine. and if not you may have the phaser on the wrong cams. but if your positive then
you have some engine buliders work to do.

so now that you have it apert. do this test for me. take a blunt tool for me and tap that small section that is sticking out and see if it moves. try to mark in on the cam before you mess with it just in case you have to put it back. to mark it take a center punch and tap a mark on the ring and then nest to it on the cam and then tap that small part sticking (the narrow on projection) out to see if it moves. not hard maybe like your a going to hit your finger hard and see if that moves. also make sure the #1 exhaust cam valve lobes are pointing downward as in that video i sent that show how to set up the test for a ring that has moved. and then if the valve lobe are pointing down and not opening the valves then do that test. if that ring moves then you know it is loose. if it turns out to be lose then move it into that spot the video shows and see if it starts are runs. it may move again if you have blue or even red loctite and that is lose try to get some loctite into the seam joint and that may hold it enough for the test.

if you tap ia and it moves you can try this cam form ebay and try it. they have 30 day return you pay shipping back and see. for a bit more elbo greas and 10$ it might be worth a try?

put this number into ebay search block and it should take you to the listing 154482947772

this is an ebay used exhaust cam notice the last lobes in comparison to the ring points? they are aligned with the small grove. Just a bit of an fyi on that ring the low parts are off and the high parts are on for the signal so the last 2 lobes are aligned with that narrow off section and on your engine they are aligned with the short on a section like 180 deg out as your saying.

the second cam is form rock auto for the 2013 2.4 engine notice the lobes are the same on the new cam

this is from ebay in stock 65$ plus 15$ shipping


this is from rock auto out of stock

rock auto site so you can look at the cam from different angles.
you go to ebay and they have the same on that cam

2013 CHEVROLET EQUINOX 2.4L L4 Camshaft | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

lots of info here good luck let me know if you need more help

 

[corvairbob]

ok if you try to see if the ring moves. mark the ring and the cam like i said with one dot close enough together so you can put them back if needed. then if the ring does move and you do tap it to put it into the spot you think it needs to be in again mark that spot but do 2 dots on the ring and 2 dots on the cam this way if it moves you can tell and if it does not work you can tap it back. i hope i explained this well for you to understand.