Timing Issue?

[Adjadean425]

Hey guys. I had a bad phaser. I replaced both. Now car starts fine initially. Then after its warmed up it doesn’t want to start. It cranks, almost starts. Could i be off on my timing a little. I have code P0017. I had a hard time finding good info on setting timing. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Fabiliz_5]

Engine size? Mileage? Has the timing chain ever been replaced?

 

[corvairbob]

my girs did that and it was the timing chain that was worn and broke and the phases can only do so much to correct the timing. you may have to set the crank at tdc and take the cover off ans see if the cam marks are still correct, i'm betting they are way off good luck

 

[Adjadean425]

Engine size? Mileage? Has the timing chain ever been replaced?

2.4 200k Timing chain was supposablely changed right before i bought it about a year ago. Thanks

 

[Adjadean425]

my girs did that and it was the timing chain that was worn and broke and the phases can only do so much to correct the timing. you may have to set the crank at tdc and take the cover off ans see if the cam marks are still correct, i'm betting they are way off good luck

Thanks. I was wondering if the chain could be stretched. I hate getting back into it but guess I will. From what i have read crank is TDC then intake is at 2 and Ex. is at 10. Is that correct? its a 2.4. Thanks for the reply

 

[corvairbob]

that may not mean anything. if you let the oil go low it will tear up the timing set. i put a new one in my girls car and she let the oil go low and it took out the new timing set fast. that is why i said to set the crank at tdc with #1 at ready to fire and see where the cam timing marks are at. that will tell you if the new phasers are doing the job. i did the complete engine and still ha p0016 and 17 codes and new everything.

also some of those cams, the encoder on the cam can move. not real often but it can move and throw out the timing. but the only way to tell is to take it apart ans make sure everything else is still good.


the timing was off a bit i had to pull the cover and reset the timing. it turns out my engine has both exhaust cams so if you find you need to replace the timing set check the cam dowel marks as there is one engine used on that series that had a different setup i think it is the lea engine so if you get parts make sure you check the cam dowel position this is the lea engine
lots of YT showing how to do that good luck

 

[corvairbob]

Thanks. I was wondering if the chain could be stretched. I hate getting back into it but guess I will. From what i have read crank is TDC then intake is at 2 and Ex. is at 10. Is that correct? its a 2.4. Thanks for the reply

there are a few YT showing how to find tdc if you take the top off and then go for tdc the front right cam closes to the chain is the intake and both lobes will be pointing to the down position and the piston will be at the top. but do some YT to find the procedure. also when and if you take the timing chain cover off look for busted guide parts and if you find any more than likely you will have lots of them stuck in the oil pickup tube. been there found them that requires removing the oil pan. so you need sealer for that or it will leak so if you go that route get some motorcycle case sealer. if you get into this let me know i have all the locations for parts. cloyes has the timing sets for both engine types so make sure you pick the correct one or you will not get the engine to turn over by hand. when you put the timing set in you have to rotate it just to make sure it rotates with out any restrictions the wrong cam phasers will make the valves hit the pistons you will know if that happens.

p0016-17 YT

changing the timing set

this one does not have the variable phasers but the procedure is the same

well tech showing how to figure out the codes

another one showing how to replace the timing set

you do not have to lower the engine it can be done thru the top real easy

another one replacing the timing set from cloyes https://www.cloyes.com/gm-2-0-2-2-2-4l-timing-replacement-cloyes-9-4201s-9-4202s/

the case sealer this is what i used and it works good Permatex 29132 MotoSeal 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey got it from ebay but any motorcycle plasce will have it don't skimp i did and had to take it off and get this also be careful of the oil dipstick tube that can cause a big leak btdt

this is about all i can send you now watch that one for figuring the codes p0016-17 they show scanning and the results and it was the timing set. good luck

 

[Adjadean425]

Ok. First thanks for all of your help. I tore back into it. Found the upper chain guide bolt was not treaded in and the hole was wallowed out. Must have been from the other guy that changed timing chain Right before i bought it. I replaced guide and used the new style bolt they have to repair that issue. I also put a new chain on. Figured that was the problem. But now it wont even attempt to start. I dont understand. The chain marks were all on correct spots. That being said, The intake cam phaser mark was closer to 130 instead of 2. And the ex. was closer to 1030 instead of 10. Could the chain be wrong? I’m so frustrated with it.

 

[corvairbob]

it sounds like you have the lea engine the ex alignment pin is at about 7 oclock and the intake is about 11 oclock if you got those wrong you may have to reset it. look at teh old phasers and see if they have the same part numbers. if they do then you have the lea engine and it times out different than all the pther engines.
this link talks of the build sheet check this out and see. in that thread a guy will send you the rpo codes and tell you what engine you have. also ask on that site about what is going on they may have more help

Vehicle Build Sheet

www.terrainforum.net

 

[Adjadean425]

Thanks. The old phasers have the same part number. And my RPO code is the LEA engine. I will research how to reset timing.

 

[corvairbob]

this is what the timeing looks like on the lea engine see the exhaust mark is as at about 11 oclock the intake is about 1or maybe 2 oclock
left phaser

right phaser

crank aligment notice the pulley markis at straight down but it will wind up at about 5:30 ish


crank the engine over by hand one turn at least to make sure the valve are not hitting


if you want more YT videos on how to install this set let me know. or just do a search for replacing the equinox timing chains and there are tons of them. but i found only one that show the cam positions for the lea engine. but that really makes no difference as you need to align the colors onthe chain to teh marks on the crank and phasers. but wated a few to get the jest. also that tining chain tensioner is a mut watch as it is critical when installeing that so yoy get ir set for tension. some guys put that in and runt the engine and then fine the chain jumpe a dozen teeth. if you di that lets hope no valves got hit.

pet us know how it goes. gt the terrain forums and ask there they have more info than the equinox site has. good luck

 

[Adjadean425]

it sounds like you have the lea engine the ex alignment pin is at about 7 oclock and the intake is about 11 oclock if you got those wrong you may have to reset it. look at teh old phasers and see if they have the same part numbers. if they do then you have the lea engine and it times out different than all the pther engines.
this link talks of the build sheet check this out and see. in that thread a guy will send you the rpo codes and tell you what engine you have. also ask on that site about what is going on they may have more help

Vehicle Build Sheet

www.terrainforum.net

H

 

[Adjadean425]

The only I can’t really find any info on is how to make sure it is on the exhaust stroke. Do you have any tips on that?

 

[Adjadean425]

The only I can’t really find any info on is how to make sure it is on the exhaust stroke. Do you have any tips on that? What i mean is the TDC on exhaust stoke.

 

[corvairbob]

on this video look around 1:40 minutes he tells you how to determine the cam lobe positions follow these instructions also this engine in not the lea as if you see the intake alignment pin it is in the 5 oclock spot on the lea that pin is at the 10 oclock however if you put got new phasers doulbe check that they match what you took off. if the part numbers are not the same unless they are gm parts after market phasers may be different numbers. so take the old phasers and check the double marks on teh tooth side and turn them over and see if the alignment holes are the same if not you ahve the worng phasers. been there already

this YT shows the samething but this engine does not have the phasers. but the process is they same

also if your sure you did get the timeing set all back correctly and it is not starting then you may have not connected one of the cam sensore on the back side of the engine or like i said earlier got the harness caught in the valve cover and pinched the harness. also make your the high pressure fuel pump has the harness connected back. in fact doulbe chelck all the harness wires, you may have one or more off and anyone of thme may cause a no start. the TB the fuel pump the coil wires the cam position wires on the drivers side the crank position sensor wires will cause a no start. it will crank but no start. it any of those are not connected or broken. let us know

 

[Adjadean425]

Thanks for your help. I will get back to it tomorrow. I’ve had enough for one day.

 

[corvairbob]

hes is another one that show hwo to find top dead center

when you get to these videos look to the right at some other that show how to do this.

this is another now lea enging notice the phases alignment pins at at 7 and 5 oclock at 18:09 ish

ok this one show the difference in the lef to the lea so this is a good one

 

[Adjadean425]

Thanks for your help. I will get back to it tomorrow. I’ve had enough for one day.

Also why does the timing marks on the chain not Match up with arrows on the phasers after a full rotation? Does this mean its the wrong chain or is it just how the ratios work out?

 

[corvairbob]

that is because of the length of the chain. that will happen on any device. even though the ratio is 2 to 1 the chain does not travel that amount. if you have a bike and did that you would get the same results.

i think it takes about 15 rotations to get back to the same place. however after you rotate it by hand to test valve clearance you can rotate it back 2 or more turns and then rotate it forward and get the marks to come back. remember the ex will be about 10 to11 the intake will be about 1 to 2 and the crank will be about 5 also watch that last YT and it tells how to tell if you have the lea engine and how to set the timing for that, also make sure about the tensioner. if you don't get that set your in a would of hurt. you can tell if you rotat counterclockwise about half a turn as that will put tension on the tensioner side and you will have tons of slack on the crank to intake side you can see it and feel it. or if you have a helper and have them watch the cams as you turn the crank a bit back and forth and tell them when you do and have them tell you if they see the cams move if they move the tensioner is tight if they do not move much then it may not have been set. good luck also get on the travers forums and see if they have tips as well. good luck to you. a tip to help make this easier is to have a jack under the pan holding the engine so you can raise it and lower it as your working the top and bottom areas.

also if you get it together rotate it at least 2 turns or more to make sure you are not hitting the valves, do it by hand you will know as all of a sudden it will stop do not force it. backoff and try again if it stops you hit a valve and then back it up and start over or you got the wrong intake phaser. been there done that. that is how i learned about the lea engine. that was a trip.

 

[Adjadean425]

that is because of the length of the chain. that will happen on any device. even though the ratio is 2 to 1 the chain does not travel that amount. if you have a bike and did that you would get the same results.

i think it takes about 15 rotations to get back to the same place. however after you rotate it by hand to test valve clearance you can rotate it back 2 or more turns and then rotate it forward and get the marks to come back. remember the ex will be about 10 to11 the intake will be about 1 to 2 and the crank will be about 5 also watch that last YT and it tells how to tell if you have the lea engine and how to set the timing for that, also make sure about the tensioner. if you don't get that set your in a would of hurt. you can tell if you rotat counterclockwise about half a turn as that will put tension on the tensioner side and you will have tons of slack on the crank to intake side you can see it and feel it. or if you have a helper and have them watch the cams as you turn the crank a bit back and forth and tell them when you do and have them tell you if they see the cams move if they move the tensioner is tight if they do not move much then it may not have been set. good luck also get on the travers forums and see if they have tips as well. good luck to you. a tip to help make this easier is to have a jack under the pan holding the engine so you can raise it and lower it as your working the top and bottom areas.

also if you get it together rotate it at least 2 turns or more to make sure you are not hitting the valves, do it by hand you will know as all of a sudden it will stop do not force it. backoff and try again if it stops you hit a valve and then back it up and start over or you got the wrong intake phaser. been there done that. that is how i learned about the lea engine. that was a trip.